Arizona birth certificate law strangeness

Comments

17 comments posted
14th Amendment makes the children AZ citizens too

I best that just galls the xenophobes.

Of course, with "originalist intent," maybe the right wing will resurrect notions that certain people count for only 3/5 of a white person.

media girl's picture
Posted by media girl on 12 June 2010 - 1:38pm
media girl needs a history lesson

The 14th Amendment was never meant to give citizenship to someone born here when their parents were here on vacation or if they came into the country ILLEGALLY, etc. It's insane and completely out of control.

You also might want to check into the 3/5th thing too, because you apparently don't have a very good grasp on it. Not surprising though that you don't.

showme69's picture
Posted by showme69 (not verified) on 15 June 2010 - 8:52pm
Arizona birth certificate limitation & the 14th Amendement

The original post was by me and not by media girl, so I would like to address this comment.

The point of my post is that Arizona does not have the right to grant or withhold citizenship. That is a Federal matter, not a state matter.

The 14th Amendment does not require state issued birth certificates, nor does it mention people on vacation in the United States, nor someone being in the United States, "illegally."

Matsu's picture
Posted by Matsu on 21 June 2010 - 9:22am
Sorry to burst your bubble,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the 14th Amendment is FEDERAL. It relates to every State in this Nation...and it DOES NOT apply to ILLEGALS. They are under their OWN NATIONS' LAWS, Some of which state specifically that they are citizens of their OWN Country.

NOW, with that out the the way, ANCHOR BABIES are NOT U.S. CITIZENS IF THEY ARE BORN HERE (INTENTIONALLY THROUGH FRAUD AND ON OUR DIME) AND ILLEGALLY. They are subject to their OWN NATIONS' LAWS REGARDING CITIZENSHIP. The 14th Amendment related SPECIFICALLY to the slaves. It has NOTHING to do with ILLEGALS (OR THEIR BABIES BORN HERE) FROM ANOTHER COUNTRY. Aren't you TIRED OF YOUR TAXPAYERS DOLLARS SUPPORTING THESE ILLEGALS YET? A MAJORITY OF TRUE AMERICANS ARE....UNLESS YOU ARE ONE!

Peg's picture
Posted by Peg (not verified) on 27 January 2011 - 1:44pm
Interesting how you have

Interesting how you have amended the US Constitution all by yourself. It must be all the SHOUTING that's the secret.

Xenophobia is such a sad thing to witness.

media girl's picture
Posted by media girl on 3 February 2011 - 9:30am
Xenophobes throughout US history

Your xenophobic fears are part of a long tradition of nativist bedwetting in the US. Nevertheless, plenty of immigrants came in "illegally" whose children were deemed US citizens. Maybe even you or your parents? Italian, Irish, Polish….

But you would claim to know what the 14th Amendment was really about, against not only a common sense reading of the language but also court precedent and all those years of application? On what do you base your assertions, "showme69"? The 14th Amendment is pretty clearly written. Maybe you should share your Ouija board so we can hear the voices, too? ;)

By the way, Matsu wrote the post.

media girl's picture
Posted by media girl on 21 June 2010 - 9:26am
READ THE CONSTITUION BETTER

READ THE CONSTITUION BETTER BECAUSE ALREADY BEFORE GIVE CITZENSHIP RIGHT TO BLACK SLAVES ALREADY EXISTE THE LAW OF 14 AMENDEMENT WICH NOT STATED IF IS FOR BLACK SLAVES JUST SAY TO ALL PERSONS BORN SO YOU SHOULD NOT SURROND THE LAW INVITED LIES AND O SUCH IGNORANCE JUST READ ALL AMENDMENTS OR GO BACK COLLEGE

JEREMY's picture
Posted by JEREMY (not verified) on 3 July 2010 - 3:23am
Not sure what you mean

I am not sure of your point. If you are saying that the 14th also applies to people who are not, nor have ever been, in servitude, I agree. If you are also saying, all the amendments of the Constitution apply and also need to be considered in decisions, I also agree.

Going back to college, I would love to take additional classes, but at this point in my life, it would be a luxury.

Matsu

Matsu's picture
Posted by Matsu on 3 July 2010 - 9:07am
Jeremy, it's difficult to

Jeremy, it's difficult to take seriously your, um, analysis of Constitutional language when you can't, or are unwilling to, write in coherent sentences. Spellcheck is your friend. ;)

media girl's picture
Posted by media girl on 3 July 2010 - 9:27am
i agree. spell check is very

i agree. spell check is very useful in the field of typing!

camib's picture
Posted by camib (not verified) on 3 July 2010 - 12:51pm
If asking to see Obama's

If asking to see Obama's birth certificate is such a crazy idea, then why did he sign Executive Order 13489 which bars the release of it?

I'm not sure if he was born here or not, but it's still something to think about. Either way I would not look into the issue because the executive order makes it ILLEGAL to do so.

Still worth asking... Why so much secrecy?

Johnmd's picture
Posted by Johnmd (not verified) on 13 April 2011 - 3:31pm
I'm glad you're not my lawyer

Of course, it must be more fun to just make shit up. Have you even read the executive order? It has nothing to do with pre-existing documents like birth certificates, you silly person.

media girl's picture
Posted by media girl on 18 April 2011 - 7:31am
Explain "jurisdiction thereof" in simple terms

The 14th Amendment states

"Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall ........"

The phrase that is confusing is "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof". It adds a condition to the preceding "persons born or naturalized" phrase. The implication is that if the "and" condition is not met, then the person does not become a citizen. So, if a person is not subject to the jurisdiction, then they do not belong under that jurisdiction and should be treated accordingly ... deported.

I have read some discussions on "jurisdiction" and they are very confusing and wordy and try too hard to be convincing which is suspicious.

Peeka's picture
Posted by Peeka (not verified) on 17 June 2011 - 11:41pm
Bottom line

You liberals never cease to amaze me. You will use any arguement (i.e. racism, xenophobes, freed slaves) to backup the fact that basically, for some strange reason, you want illegal people to be granted citizenship and rights here regardless of whether it would be good for the country as a whole or not and regardless of whether they go through the right channels or not.

The basic bottom line is that you know that illegals are using (or should I say abusing) the 14th Ammendment to get to stay here. It is not being used now for what it was originally intended. The basic fundumentals and freedoms of our society are being slowly irradicated by you people and it's about time we took our country back.

In your world, citizens have no say or rights to decide how their country should be... non-citizens get that right. Call me strange, racist or whatever you want, but that just really gets me bent. I work hard and pay taxes like everyone else who is here LEGALLY and I think I should get a certain amount of say over how much of my space I want to share. It's called rules people... but you liberals just want the rules thrown out so that you don't have to feel guilty for living better than other people in impoverished countries.

I have an idea: If you want to take care of all of these people, have ten or twenty of them stay at your house for a week. Something tells me you would come to your senses real quick-like because suddenly it would become an inconvenience to YOU... instead of to the rest of US.

I'm not sure if you back the illegals because you're interested in learning Spanish or what the deal is, but this is not a race issue. I don't care if you're white as snow and speak French... I don't want you here unless you're here legally and paying taxes and not sponging. And I certainly don't want to pay for you or the eight kids that you can't afford just because it's "in your religion" not to use birth control. And I don't want to have to push "1" to hear my phonecall in English either. Are you liberals even aware that it is a REQUIREMENT to speak English in order to become a citizen here? And no, I didn't make that up... check out the requirements sometime and you'll see.

With the ridiculous thinking that you liberals have.... you're basically proposing that we just say that all people born on this planet are automatically US citizens. That's basically the stance you're taking, right? Otherwise, we aren't being "humanitarians" I suppose by forcing people to remain the problem of the country they come from.

Guess what? Other countries do this and no one calls them racist. My cousin tried to move to Australia and guess what? After six months, they told him it was time to go home because he's not a legal citizen.... my God, what a concept! Canada does the same thing and so does England and so do plenty of other countries. Are they racist? Are they being cruel? No! They're being practical and taking care of their own.

I just don't get it. This country and especially the state I come from, California, are a complete financial disaster. Yet all of you want more people here to support and take care of and then sit there and wonder why we're in such a mess. Utter brilliance!

Look, I'm not a cold person. I'd like to be able to help everyone in the world too, but there comes a time when the dam can't handle anymore water and we're already waaaay beyond that point. It's time we get our current problems under control before we start taking on another set from people who haven't even participated here.

Perhaps one day when you look around and find yourself with no say because YOU are now the minority and because YOU let America be turned in to Mexico part two... maybe then you'll realize how insane your thinking is.

Rich's picture
Posted by Rich (not verified) on 19 October 2011 - 3:51pm
What an awful thing it must

What an awful thing it must be to live in such fear of the world. You have my sympathy.

media girl's picture
Posted by media girl on 5 November 2011 - 11:36am
"Subject to the Jurisdiction thereof"

If ignorance is bliss there are some very blissful people here. With all the posts I do not see an explanation of what that phrase, as used in the 14th, means. I do see a lot of posts by several posters which display they have no clue whatsoever despite chastising people over their 'phobias'.
Here in simple English and from the mouths of the men who WROTE it. I suppose this post will get axed because he rebuts several peoples uneducated opinions.
“I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of PARENTS NOT OWING ALLEGIANCE TO ANY FOREIGN SOVEREIGNTY is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN”
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?col... (location: top center column)

It means 'POLITICAL' jurisdiction. Illegals OWE ALLEGIANCE to the country they CAME FROM. IT is a REQUIREMENT for naturalization that you RENOUNCE Foreign Allegiance.

“The provision is, that ‘all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.’ That means ‘subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.’ What do we mean by ‘complete jurisdiction thereof?’ NOT OWING ALLEGIANCE TO ANYBODY ELSE. That is what it means.”
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?col...

I have a complete explanation here.

Wildbill's picture
Posted by Wildbill (not verified) on 1 May 2012 - 4:08pm
if the Xenophobes

Really want this type of law, then it should apply to ALL people.

The only "real Americans" are the Native Americans, except in their eyes they don't count as people either.

To me, the Pilgrims were just as illegal as any illegals of today. There, I can be just as extreme as the other side.

Racism and cultural divide rears its ugly head once again and those who refuse to admit this need a good wash of their mouth, hearts and minds.

feslenraster's picture
Posted by feslenraster (not verified) on 8 September 2012 - 6:14am